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Political Discourse as it once was. Quotes from the Lincoln/Douglas
debates:
"If I have reasoned to a false conclusion, it is the vocation
of an able debater to show by argument that I have wandered to an erroneous
conclusion."
- Abraham Lincoln, 8/21/1858
"I desire to address myself to your judgment, your understanding, and
your consciences, and not to your passions or your enthusiasm."
- Stephen A. Douglas, 8/21/1858
"But I have a right to claim that if a man says he knows a thing, then
he must show how he knows it. I always have a right to claim this, and it is
not satisfactory to me that he may be 'conscientious' on the subject."
- Abraham Lincoln, 8/21/1858
Scoring

Form letter reply or no reply at all. It is not clear
that anyone has even read the correspondence beyond possibly noting
the topic. A complete disregard of a constituent's specific questions
especially after repeated attempts. A complete lack of engagement
in the democratic process.

Attempts to address the specific points raised by the constituent
but in a demonstrably unreasoned manner, whether sincere or through deliberate
rationalization.

A valid, rational argument that places truth above
politics and partisanship. Fully engaged in the democratic process.
Contribute?
Do you have some correspondence with your representative that
you would like to contribute to EngageTheDebate.com?
Please send it to
info@EngageTheDebate.com
"The care of human life and happiness and not their destruction is the
first and only legitimate object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3/31/1809, in a letter to the Citizens of Washington County,
Maryland
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"I
have a right to claim that if a man says he knows a thing, then he must show
how he knows it. I always have a right to claim this, and it is not satisfactory
to me that he may be 'conscientious' on the subject." - Abraham
Lincoln debating Stephen Douglas, 8/21/1858
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Congresswoman Barbara Lee, CA
The
office of Congresswoman Barbara Lee refuses to engage in the
democratic process. After not engaging for two full years
after repeated attempts, Barbara Lee's Legislative Director
apologized for the lack of an adequate response to my queries
and then also failed to reply herself. The office of Barbara
Lee is either unwilling or unable to reply to my questions;
neither option is worthy of an elected representative in what
is supposed to be a representative democracy. (23
contacts)
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Summary of Contacts:
| Contact |
Summary |
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Initial contact. Trying to engage the debate.
5/30/01 |
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My
specific questions were met with a form letter reply after I
specifically requested a non-form letter reply. |
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Responded to the form letter. |
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Having received no response after an additional
three months, I again requested answers to my specific questions. |
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An additional four months pass by with no
reply to either my third or fourth queries. The current length
of silence from the office of Barbara Lee now totals over nine
months so I sent an additional reminder that would hopefully
attract some attention. |
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After being ignored for 16 months I request
the necessary form to meet with Congresswoman Barbara Lee. |
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I sent in my request to meet with the Congresswoman. |
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A month passed with no reply to my request
to meet so I called to speak with the scheduler. |
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I received a call back from the scheduler. |
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I received a call from the person in the
local office who deals with health issues. |
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I e-mailed my original questions to the Washington
office. |
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After hearing nothing back after nearly two
more months, I called the Washington office to see if everything
was in order. I requested a return contact. |
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I called and spoke with Aysha House. |
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I phoned Aysha again after two and a half
more weeks passed to see what the status of a response might
be. |
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I again phoned Aysha House to check on the
status of a reply. |
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I called and spoke with Aysha House. She
requested that I resend the questions to her. |
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I again sent my original questions as requested. |
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I called Aysha House to confirm receipt of
the requested fax and ask when I may expect a reply. |
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I again left a message with Aysha House concerning
the requested fax. |
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I left another message with Aysha House. |
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I received a call from Julie Little, Legislative
Director of the Washington office. |
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After not receiving the reply that the Legislative
Director said would be on its way, I called to find the status
of this reply. |
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I again did not hear back from Julie Little
so I called her again. |
First contact: To Congresswoman Barbara Lee encouraging him to engage the debate. This letter
May 30, 2001
Barbara Lee
1301 Clay Street, Suite 1000N
Oakland, CA 94612
Dear Barbara Lee,
As my representative in the U.S. Congress, I would like
to better understand your pro-choice position by asking
you just a few specific questions. These questions are
straightforward and I would prefer answers to these questions
rather than a general form letter response so that I may
better understand how you represent me, your constituent.
As a rational person who
is pro-life, I can find no Constitutional basis for one
person’s ‘right’ to
legally kill an innocent person. The 14th amendment of
the U.S.
Constitution makes clear that all persons, regardless
of citizenship, are to be protected equally by the laws.
This
argument presumes:
1) the pregnant woman is two individuals and not one
2) the second individual is also a person entitled to rights
3) all persons are included by the equal protection clause
of the 14th amendment of the U.S. Constitution
If you accept these three statements then there is no other
rational position but to be pro-life. As a pro-choice person
you must disagree with at least one of these three statements.
In summary, I would like to know which and why.
The first statement is based on the fact that our lives
as individuals begin at conception/fertilization. There
is overwhelming evidence to support this fact. According
to U.S. Senate Judiciary Subcommittee testimony given
by numerous internationally known biologists and geneticists,
the answer is clear:
“ Conception (fertilization)
marks the beginning of the life of a human being ... There
is
overwhelming agreement on
this point in countless medical, biological and scientific
writings."
Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary
Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session 1981, p.7
Further testimony was given by Jerome
Lejuene, the Father of Modern Genetics, who told lawmakers, “To
accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place,
a
new human has come into being is no longer a matter of
taste
or opinion ... it is plain experimental evidence.”
Opposing testimony to these points was invited but none
was received because to do so is profoundly contrary
to scientific knowledge.
One does not need a degree in biology to accept this
position as fact for if a new individual did not exist
after conception/fertilization
then a pregnancy must at some point conclude by the
mother splitting into two individuals, an act of asexual
reproduction.
Since we each have two parents who created us at conception/fertilization,
if we are not independent beings from that point on
then human beings must reproduce asexually which is
absurd.
My first question for you is do you believe
that conception/fertilization marks the beginning of a
human being’s existence?
If no, please explain when this occurs and why you
believe this is so.
The second statement is that unborn human beings are
in fact persons entitled to rights. Being a person
is not
a subjective matter, as some seemingly believe; it
is a matter of objective fact. Africans are persons
and
have
always been persons even though they were not treated
as such during the days of slavery. Dred Scott was
factually incorrect by not recognizing the objective
fact of the
personhood of Africans. Those today who claim that
while the unborn are human beings they are not persons
are
making
a similar arbitrary, subjective assertion. Upon serious
examination, I have never found a rational argument
to support this pro-choice conclusion. Let me explain
why.
You and I are persons because we are
each inherently capable of thought, feeling, emotion, reason,
and all
of those
other attributes commonly associated with persons.
The unborn are also persons because they are beings
that
have this same inherent capacity. While they do not
have the
immediate capacity to demonstrate these abilities,
neither do you or I while unconscious. You and I retain
our personhood
while unconscious because we are beings with these
inherent capacities. It’s that simple. Unborn
human beings are persons for the same reason that you
and I are; we
all have inherent capacities that distinguish us from
all non-persons. We all have the being of persons so
we all
are persons.
While one could perhaps argue that only
those individuals with blue eyes are persons, one would
be hard pressed
to explain why this position would not be arbitrary
since it has nothing to do with being a person. The
only non-arbitrary
place for assigning personhood is the beginning of
that individual’s existence which is conception/fertilization.
Any other place ignores the inherent capacities of
that being which is what defines the being for what
he/she
truly is, a person.
My second question is do you believe that unborn human
beings, while living members of the species homo sapiens,
are also persons? If no, when do they become persons
and why at that time?
The third part of my position comes directly from the
U.S. Constitution. The 14th amendment clearly states
that all
persons are to have equal protection of the laws. Since
you swore an oath to uphold the Constitution I doubt
that you have an issue with the 14th amendment. Do
you have
a different reading of this amendment?
I have given a lot of thought to this
issue and have found no rational pro-choice arguments that
address
this fundamental
issue of the personhood of the unborn. Even Roe v.
Wade specifically avoids it which is absolutely inexcusable;
You can’t argue that there are no victims simply
by dodging the point.
In today’s political climate, being pro-choice is
easy. Given the rationality of pro-life arguments that
I have heard, I think that someday arguments for the choice
of abortion and the choice to own slaves will be held in
the same regard. The arbitrary denial of the most fundamental
protections, called by our founders the “unalienable
right to life and liberty,” in order to achieve one’s
own ends against an innocent person is a crime against
humanity. There is no Constitutional right to kill an innocent
human being for one’s own benefit. (Again, Roe
v. Wade specifically avoided this point and therefore
can
not be used as a defense.)
I am very open to a rational pro-choice
argument but I’m
having some difficulty finding one. Thank you for your
time and I look forward to your reply so that I may
better understand just how you are representing me
in the Congress.
Sincerely,
A Private Citizen
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Second contact: Received
a form letter from Congresswoman Barbara Lee that, of course, did
not address my specific concerns and questions.
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Barbara Lee's form letter reply
does not address any of my stated concerns. As frequently
happens, my letter is regarded simply as a statement
of an opinion instead of addressing the questions that
I asked. |
June 30, 2001
Thank you for contacting me with your views concerning abortion.
I appreciate you taking the time to write me about this
subject.
While the debate surrounding abortion and a women's reproductive
right is highly sensitive and complex, I respect everyone's
personal conviction regarding this issue.
I am prochoice and I support a women's
right to reproductive freedom. This stance is in line with
the Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade. On January
22, 1973 Justice Blackmun delivered the opinion of the Court
on Roe v. Wade, which concluded that a fetus is not a "person"
under the Fourteenth Amendment and that the state may not
justify restrictions on abortion. Additionally, in one of
the Supreme Court's first decisions regarding the right
to personal privacy in 1891, the Court ruled that, "No
right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded,
by the common law, than the right of every individual to
the possession and control of his own person, free from
all restraint or interference of others..."
It is a common goal of those on both sides on the debate
to make abortions less necessary and more rare. I support
family planning services that help us to accomplish this
goal, as they provide women and families with vital counseling
and services that prevent the need for abortions and ensure
that women are educated about all of her options.
Thank you for sharing your perspective with me on this issue.
I enjoyed hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Barbara Lee
Member of Congress
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Third contact: My reply
to Congresswoman Barbara Lee's initial form letter which did not
answer any of my specific questions.
July 5, 2001
Barbara Lee
1301 Clay Street, Suite 1000N
Oakland, CA 94612
Dear Barbara Lee,
This is a response to your June 27, 2001 form letter sent
to me in an attempt to address my concerns over your position
on abortion. Unfortunately, I can not tell if anyone actually
read my letter because in the first paragraph I had mentioned
that I had three specific questions that I would like answered
and that I did not wish to receive a form letter in reply.
Your form letter did not answer my questions and so I am
giving you another opportunity to do so. My questions should
be easily answered by anyone who has a strong opinion on
the matter, such as you.
Thank you for your time and I look forward to your reply
so that I may better understand just how you are representing
me in Congress.
My previous letter is enclosed.
Sincerely,
A Private Citizen
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Fourth contact: Having
received no response after an additional three months, I again requested
answers to my specific questions.
October 6, 2001
Barbara Lee
1301 Clay Street, Suite 1000N
Oakland, CA 94612
Dear Barbara Lee,
On June 27, 2001 you replied
to my May 30th letter to you regarding
abortion. Unfortunately, your form letter did not address
any of the questions that I had asked you on the subject
and after asking again for a clarification on July 5th I
have not yet received a reply.
Discussion between a constituent and their representative
is an essential part of a democracy. A form letter reply
is not a discussion.
I have enclosed my original
letter and would like to give you another opportunity
to reply or perhaps we should schedule some time to get
together to discuss this issue. I am asking for answers
to only a few simple questions that anyone with an opinion
as strongly held as yours should be able to quickly answer.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
A Private Citizen
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Fifth contact: An additional
four months pass by with no reply to either my third or fourth queries.
The current length of silence from the office of Barbara Lee now
totals over nine months so I sent an additional reminder that would
hopefully attract some attention.
February 2, 2002
Barbara Lee
1301 Clay Street, Suite 1000N
Oakland, CA 94612
Re: Your position on slavery
I simply can not understand
your continued support for slavery. Clearly, the evidence
that slaves are fellow human beings is scientifically incontrovertible
and they are deserving of the dignity and respect due all
persons as guaranteed by the equal protection clause of
the Constitution. The founders of the Feminist movement,
including Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton, were
completely opposed to slavery precisely because they believed
that by definition there could be no exceptions to 'equality'.
By simply ignoring the humanity of the slave you do not
justify your position; you are merely masking a terrific
injustice.
I would like to point out
that as shocking as the above paragraph sounds today it
is exactly like your position on abortion and every statement
is just as true. Please read it again with this in mind:
I simply can not understand your continued support for abortion.
Clearly, the evidence that the unborn are fellow human beings
is scientifically incontrovertible and they are deserving
of the dignity and respect due all persons as guaranteed
by the equal protection clause of the Constitution. The
founders of the Feminist movement, including Susan B. Anthony
and Elizabeth Cady Stanton, were completely opposed to abortion
precisely because they believed that by definition there
could be no exceptions to 'equality'. By simply ignoring
the humanity of the unborn you do not justify your position;
you are merely masking a terrific injustice.
I have twice now (in letters
dated 5/30/01 and 10/6/01)
asked you three simple questions concerning your position
on the humanity and protections due the unborn and you have
not replied. I will give you one more opportunity to reply
in writing (original letter is enclosed)
before I make an appointment with your office so that you
can explain in person your support of slavery and its equivalent.
As the person who purports to represent me in Congress,
I do not believe I am asking too much.
Sincerely,
A Private Citizen
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Sixth contact: After being
ignored for 16 months I request to meet with Congresswoman Barbara
Lee..
October 24, 2002
After 16 months of being ignored I called the office of
Congresswoman Barbara Lee and requested the necessary form
in order to set up an appointment with her.
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Seventh contact: I sent
in my request to meet with the Congresswoman.
October 25, 2002
I filled out the obligatory form and sent
in my request to meet with the Congresswoman.
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Eighth contact:A month
passed with no reply to my request to meet so I called to speak
with the scheduler.
November 26, 2002
After another month of being ignored I
called the office and left a message for the scheduler,
Sandra Andrews, to see what the status of my requested meeting
was.
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Ninth contact: I received
a call back from the scheduler.
November 26, 2002
The scheduler returned my call and
said that I would be contacted by the person in charge of
health issues, Michael Rubiano. After seven straight contacts,
this is the first response that I received from this office
in 17 months.
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Tenth contact: I received
a call from the person in the local office who deals with health
issues.
November 26, 2002
Michael Rubiano, the person in Congresswoman
Barbara Lee's local office in charge of
health issues, gave me a call and he asked what my specific
questions for the Congresswoman were. After detailing them
at some length he felt that these were very good questions
and that I should send them to the Washington office to
the attention of Aysha House as a policy/legislative question
for an official reply. He did not attempt to reply to these
questions in any capacity.
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Eleventh contact: I
e-mailed my original questions to the Washington office.
February 5, 2003
Now almost 21 months into this process,
I find myself sending my original questions to another recipient.
I e-mailed my original questions to the attention of Aysha
House in the Washington office of Congresswoman Barbara
Lee.
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Twelfth contact: After
hearing nothing back after nearly two more months, I called the
Washington office to see if everything was in order. I requested
a return contact.
March 31, 2003
After hearing nothing back after nearly
two more months, I called the Washington office to see if
everything was in order. I requested a return contact by
leaving a message for Aysha House.
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Thirteenth contact:
I called and spoke with Aysha House.
April 11, 2003
I called and spoke with Aysha House
concerning my letter. She said that she remembers having
seen the letter and said that she would look into it. I
again left my contact information.
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Fourteenth contact:
I phoned Aysha again after two and a half more weeks passed to see
what the status of a response might be.
April 28, 2003
I phoned Aysha House again and left
her a voicemail concerning the status of the requested response.
I again left contact information.
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Fifteenth contact:
I again phoned Aysha House to check on the status of a reply.
April 30, 2003
I again phoned Aysha House to check on
the status of a reply. I again left contact information.
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Sixteenth contact:
I called and spoke with Aysha House. She requested that I resend
the questions to her.
May 8, 2003
I spoke with Aysha House who again
asked that I send the same questions to her again, questions
that I had now originally sent to the office of Barbara
Lee almost 2 full years ago and which I have resent on multiple
occasions.
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Seventeenth contact:
I again sent my original questions as requested.
May 9, 2003
I again sent my original
questions (via fax) to the office of Congresswoman Barbara
Lee, this time almost two years since I had first sent them.
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Eighteenth contact:
I called Aysha House to confirm receipt of the requested fax and
ask when I may expect a reply.
May 16, 2003
I called Aysha House to confirm receipt
of the requested fax and ask when I may expect a reply.
I again left contact information although this office has
not yet used it.
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Nineteenth contact:
I again left a message with Aysha House concerning the requested
fax.
May 20, 2003
I again left a message with Aysha
House concerning the requested fax. I again left contact
information.
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Twentieth contact:
I left another message with Aysha House.
May 27, 2003
I left another message with Aysha House
detailing how difficult it is to get a response from the
office of Congresswoman Barbara Lee after two years and
suggested that a common courtesy contact was in order.
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Twenty first contact:
I received a call from Julie Little, Legislative Director of the
Washington office.
May 30, 2003
I received a phone call from Julie
Little, Legislative Director of the Washington office, who
told me that she would send a reply next week. She apologized
for the delay in a response.
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Twenty second contact:
After not receiving the reply that the Legislative Director said
would be on its way, I called to find the status of this reply.
June 20, 2003
After not receiving the reply that
the Legislative Director, Julie Little, said would be on
its way, I called to find the status of this reply. I left
Julie a message.
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Twenty third contact:
I again did not hear back from Julie Little so I called her again.
June 25, 2003
I again did not hear back from Julie
Little so I called her again and left her a message. I asked
if this was indeed the end. I have not heard back.
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I have not heard back from the office of Congresswoman
Barbara Lee. She remains disengaged from the democratic process.
Please send your comments and
questions to
info@EngageTheDebate.com
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